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Life is hard some times! People often long for safe places where they can express their grief, confusion or even anger. Whether you are deconstructing, questioning, or doubting, you are welcome and valued here. When many of us venture out to find healing or relief or adventure, it can often feel like walking out into the Desert. Welcome to our Sanctuary in the Desert. You are welcome to share your thoughts and what you are producing while you are processing. We will endeavor to lean toward t ...
 
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That’s right, we’re taking a break from social media for the month of December. Email us or send s a text if you really need to tell us something. We may not check it very often. karl4hand@gmail.com lauraforehand64@karl4hand Karl and Laura Subscribe to Blog via Email Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of ne…
 
So grateful for Kyle being willing to talk to us once a month. His wisdom and insight is powerful at times. Once again, we go inside and talk about real healing Kyle Butler Subscribe to Blog via Email Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. Email Address: Subscribe Order Being or the The B…
 
I love every conversation I have with Jason Elam. I attempted to interview him, but he is good at turning questions around. Even though we are the best of friends, we don’t see everything exactly the same, but we usually end up talking about organized religion. Karl and Jason Elam Subscribe to Blog via Email Enter your email address to subscribe to…
 
Recently, I had a beautiful and life giving conversation with my friend, Joe Machuta. In this conversation, we discuss Joe’s eclectic spiritual journey as well as his stubborn love for Jesus. It really is worth an hour of your time and I sincerely hope you will check it out! I know that this conversation will stretch many of us theologically, but t…
 
No matter what we call our journey, it is necessary to face our woundedness. We talk with Aaron again about how that happens. This is all things shadow and inner child. The time went quickly and we probably just scratched the surface, but enjoy! Remember, we are taking off the month of December. Look for us around the first of the year to do a kick…
 
We’ve been waiting a while to talk to Dallas Verity. He and Blair have had some amazing interviews on their podcast, Shipwreck Over Safety. But we got to know them more through our conversations on various broadcasts over the years including The Desert Sanctuary. When I knew we were going to talk, I kept seeing Dallas Verity lookalikes every where …
 
Jared Byas is co-host of the popular podcast The Bible for Normal People and co-author of the book Genesis for Normal People. As a former teaching pastor and professor of Philosophy & Biblical Studies, he speaks regularly on the Bible, truth, creativity, wisdom, and the Christian faith. He and his wife, Sarah, live outside Philadelphia, PA with the…
 
Recently we were asked to contribute to a parenting book. Now that we are grandparents, we can at least summarize what worked for us and what didn’t. Parenting is a daunting task with many confusing voices offering their opinion on what might work. In the end, the best we can do is follow our heart and trust ourselves. Maybe the subtitle for this c…
 
So, Karl why don’t you just leave religion alone and pursue what you want to pursue? Because religion is part of my roots and religion affects people. I know that people involved in organized religion don’t have evil intentions, but the system is systemically inadequate to deal with the trauma that it often creates. Please listen to this with an op…
 
Dawn Schale joins us and Kyle on our regular monthly episode. The answer to everything today was to look inside and find what brings you joy? The four of us had different experiences in Christianity, but we all agreed that it erased boundaries and focused our purpose away from ourselves. In the process, we lost our identity and forgot who we really…
 
Some Christians like to imagine they are under attack, but maybe they are under review. This week we talk about a comment Karl heard on TicToc from Pastor Joseph Yoo. We also talk about Vulnerability and Bravery and a quote from Brene Brown. It’s always good to talk to Jason! Subscribe to Blog via Email Enter your email address to subscribe to this…
 
In this brand new episode, I talk to my good friends, Jon and Nat Turney, about God, church, spiritual evolution, and their new podcast, This is Not Church. This is a fun conversation that I think you're really going to enjoy so be sure to check it out. Don't miss Jon and Nat's podcast, This is Not Church. You can follow Jon and Nat and their podca…
 
We're back! I really missed podcasting so my retirement was short-lived. In this brand new episode, we talk to author Karl Forehand about making the transition from "doing" to "being" and from "reacting" to "responding". I'll be joining the conversation over on Karl and Laura's podcast, The Desert Sanctuary, on a monthly basis starting this month. …
 
In this brief uncut message, Jason talks about the myth of safety and how to look for signs of health in our relationships and communities. Books referenced in this episode: "Being: A Journey Toward Presence and Authenticity" by Karl Forehand "Before You Lose Your Mind: Deconstructing Bad Theology in the Church" edited by Keith Giles Check out the …
 
In this finale episode, I ask bestselling author Keith Giles some of the questions that I've heard most often from folks who are deconstructing. Why did Jesus have to die? What happened on the cross? What do I do with the resurrection? Where did this monster version of God come from? What does it mean to be born again? And many other questions. Nea…
 
In this episode, we speak with author Anita Grace Brown about how her practice of yoga has deepened her connection with Jesus and the world around her. Anita helps prepare hearts and minds for a loving relationship with Mother/Father/God/Creator by facilitating practices like yoga, prayerful meditation, and chants. Her strength in moving toward hum…
 
In this episode, I talk to two of my favorite voices on social media, Derek and Rachel Myers from "Your Favorite Heretics". We have an open and heartfelt conversation about walking away from toxic faith and finding healing. To engage more with Rachel, Derek, and their work, you can follow Your Favorite Heretics on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and …
 
We kick off season two with a beautiful conversation with author, speaker, and podcaster Jonathan Puddle. Jonathan Puddle is an award-winning writer, speaker, husband and father who hosts the popular interview show, The Puddcast. Having traveled the world and lived in many nations, Jonathan teaches from a culturally rich & spiritually inclusive fra…
 
My guest for this "Messy Conversations" BONUS episode is Matthew J. Distefano. Matthew is a brilliant writer, theologian, musician, podcaster, social worker, and Patheos contributor. He is one of four co-hosts of the insanely popular Heretic Happy Hour podcast and also hosts a solo podcast called "Apostates Anonymous". He is the author of the Amazo…
 
In this episode, we welcome our good friends, Karl and Laura Forehand, as we explore practical ways to keep our peace in chaotic times. This conversation was real and raw and I think you'll really enjoy it. Laura Forehand is an educator, author, podcaster, mom, grandmother, and so much more. Her podcast is "The Whole Brain Teaching Podcast".Karl Fo…
 
In this heartfelt and moving conversation, author Keith Giles and I discuss his transition from holding a view of eternal conscious torment (burning forever in hell) to annihilationism and then to his current view of patristic universalism. We also discuss common objections to ultimate redemption. Keith is one of four co-hosts of the insanely popul…
 
Welcome to the season one finale of The Messy Spirituality Podcast: "Exiles on Main Street" featuring Brian Zahnd. Brian serves as Pastor of Word of Life Church in St. Joseph, Missouri. He is also the author of several incredible books such as: "Water to Wine", "Beauty Will Save the World", "Farewell to Mars", "Sinners in the Hands of a Loving God"…
 
Episode 58 of the podcast features part two of our interview with our most requested guest ever, Dr. C. Baxter Kruger! Baxter is a theologian, writer [and fishing lure designer] and the Director of Perichoresis Ministries. He is a native of Prentiss, Mississippi. He and his wife Beth have been married for 30 years and have four children. A life lon…
 
Episode 57 of the podcast features our most requested guest ever, Dr. C. Baxter Kruger! Baxter is a theologian, writer [and fishing lure designer] and the Director of Perichoresis Ministries. He is a native of Prentiss, Mississippi. He and his wife Beth have been married for 30 years and have four children. A life long student of psychology, he has…
 
Welcome to episode 56 of the podcast featuring the one and only Karl Forehand. Karl is a former pastor and is the award winning author of the wonderful book, "Apparent Faith" for which he won a 2020 Christian Indie Award. He and his wife, Laura, host The Desert Sanctuary podcast and website. He writes a thought provoking column for Patheos and, som…
 
Episode 55 of the podcast features author Julie Ferwerda. Julie is an inspirational writer who seeks to help others experience transformational healing by overcoming fear and developing awareness of their invincible connections to God, self, and others. She is the author of several books including, Raising Hell: Christianity's Most Controversial Do…
 
Episode 54 of the podcast features Ashley Robbins. Ashley is an artist and cosmetologist who works full time at a major university. She grew up in a conservative Church of Christ where she remained until leaving that religious system last September. She is currently undergoing a spiritual evolution and is hoping to uncover a better spiritual path. …
 
Episode 53 features my good friend, Keith Giles-back for a record breaking fifth visit! Keith is the prolific author of incredible books like: Jesus Untangled, Jesus Unbound, Jesus Unveiled, and Jesus Undefeated. He is one of four co-hosts of the Heretic Happy Hour podcast, writes a popular column for Patheos, and teaches a variety of courses that …
 
Welcome to episode 52 of the podcast featuring Author and Speaker Dr. Thomas Jay Oord. Dr. Thomas Jay Oord is a theologian, philospher, and scholar of multi-disciplinary studies. He is an award-winning author or editor of twenty-five books and an award-winning professor. Oord directs the Northwind Theological Seminary doctoral program in Open and R…
 
Welcome to Episode 51 of the podcast featuring pastor and writer Steven Barber. Steven is a 29 year old United Methodist Pastor who is currently on sabbatical. He has been married to Megan, his wife who is also a United Methodist Church Pastor, for seven years. They have a beautiful daughter, Gwenivere, who will be turning three later this month. S…
 
Episode 49 features PK Langley. PK was a senior pastor who walked away from religion and learned how to love. She created over three hundred cartoons to express her journey of awakening and they are posted for free on langleytown.com. She works in the mental health field and is completing her master's in mental health counseling. In this conversati…
 
My guest in episode 48 is my friend, Chris Eaker. Chris is a husband, father, former engineer, academic librarian, musician, and spiritual director who lives in Knoxville, TN. He graduated from Georgia Tech in 2000 with a degree in civil engineering and in 2013 from the University of Tennessee with a degree in informational sciences. He received hi…
 
On episode 47, I speak with Markus Watson. Markus has been a Presbyterian pastor for almost twenty years. He currently serves as Interim Pastor of Westmorland Community Presbyterian Church in the small farming community of Westmorland, California. Markus is also the host of the Spiritual Life and Leadership podcast and is the author of Beyond Thing…
 
Episode 46 features a timely conversation with author, pastor, and hopeful theologian Derrick Day. Derrick Day literally wrote the book on Deconstructing Religion. He's a long-time pastor, the host of the Love Forward podcast, and takes his message worldwide on social media via Derrick Day Multimedia.Derrick unpacks his spiritual journey for us and…
 
Episode 45 of the podcast is now available featuring David Meyers. David is a father of 4 and has been married to his wife, Nicole, for 22 years. He is a touring musician turned pastor turned firefighter and is a singer/songwriter creating music with his band Of Light and Shadow whose music is featured in this episode. In this conversation, we disc…
 
All the way from Manchester, England, Phil Drysdale joins us for an in depth conversation about his spiritual journey, his intense study of the current deconstruction moment that we're in, how this new reformation started, and where it's headed. Phil Drysdale helps people who are in the process of losing their faith and hopefully helps them discove…
 
Episode 43 of the podcast features one of the most encouraging people I know-Kyle Butler! Kyle got his start in ministry when he was just 13 years old. He was ordained at the age of 21. Five years later he was installed as the pastor of the church he grew up in. In 2008, Kyle received a revelation of grace that changed his life and ministry forever…
 
In this special episode, I provide a quick podcast update and describe a recent experience that I found helpful in healing the wounds of life. I was recently a guest on Todd Vick's very first episode of The Reconstruction Rebel podcast. You can hear that interview here. This week, I was a guest on Eric Nevins' "Halfway There" podcast. You can liste…
 
Episode 42 of the podcast features Licensed Clinical Social Worker Seth Showalter. Seth is a co-host of the Fade to Gray Podcast and also runs a solo podcast called Mental. He comes from Southern Baptist roots and was headed into ministry until he realized he had same sex attraction. Seth has had an interesting journey and isn't shy about sharing t…
 
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